Vizibl Visionary Series
Vizibl Visionary Series – Episode 1 with Anoop Nathwani
May 13, 2020
Alex Basso
24 minutes

Welcome to the launch of the Vizibl Visionary Series!

From Supplier Collaboration through to managing Innovation, we talk with the best minds in Procurement, Supply Chain and Innovation on how organisations can take a giant leap in how they approach their supplier ecosystems.

We launch our first Vizibl Visionary Series episode with our guest Anoop Nathwani – a globally recognised authority and world-class expert on Strategic Partnerships and Alliances.

If you’re short on time, here are five quick takeaways:

  • There are a massive opportunity for companies to collaborate with their suppliers based on a shared risk, shared reward, shared resources type approach.
  • Supplier partnerships, SRM, collaboration has been around a long time, but while people say they know what it is, they have missed the point totally on what it entails. It is not risk management and contract management, it is much much bigger than that.
  • Executive sponsorship is critically important in order to run effective collaborative relationships with suppliers. Without C-Suite championing this, forget about.
  • Cultural change is needed in the organisation, see the example of Microsoft since Satya Nadella became CEO, going from a know-it-all culture to a learn-it-all culture.
  • ABCD model: Attitudes towards partners leads to the right Behaviours, right Behaviours will lead to the right Culture, and finally you need Dialogue.

You can read the full conversation below:

Alex 0:08
Hi there this is Alex Basso from Vizibl and we are here to talk about supplier collaboration and innovation. Welcome to our first session of the Vizibl podinar. This is a mixture between a podcast and a webinar and I am delighted to kick off this first session with Anoop Nathwani. Anoop is a globally recognised authority and workplace expert in strategic partnerships and alliances. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. How are you?

Anoop 0:30
Good morning, Alex. I’m very well considering our circumstances I am I am extremely well thank you, Alex. And thank you very much for inviting me to this. What do you call it, podinar?!

Alex 0:40
Yeah, I call it podinar. So we do a podinar, which is a mixture between a webinar.

Anoop 0:45
Fantastic talk about innovation already. That’s what we’re doing.

Alex 0:49
So Anoop I knew I know you already. We’ve talked quite a lot of times you’ve taught me quite a lot about collaboration, partnerships, alliances, procurement, but for those people who don’t know you who is Anoop Nathwani.

Anoop 1:03
So I’m an individual that enables organisations that want to grow, they want to drive competitive advantage, they want to innovate, etc. And they want to create new commercial value. But they have a lot of things coming their way. There’s digital technologies such as artificial intelligence, blockchain other bits and pieces that they don’t know how to handle. And they don’t know what to do with it, they know how to transform themselves, etc. So what I do is I actually help those organisations by borrowing leveraging capabilities, complimentary capabilities, assets and skills from other organisations through what I call a very powerful strategic alliances and partnering strategy. Yeah, so actually help them through a partnering lens to create this new value and create competitive advantage. And in today’s even in today’s business world, I help them survive as the very, very minimum. Now, I’ve been doing this now for about 22 years both as an employed individual and as a consultant for the last seven years as well. I have actually managed and developed some of the biggest alliances in the world, multibillion pound euro dollar alliances with companies like Vodafone, Three and Nokia as well.

Anoop 2:25
And in addition to that, whilst I was at Nokia, I actually lead actually developed and lead the entire alliance Centre of Excellence worldwide for for the entire partnering team and Nokia. In addition to that, what happened when Nakia tried to change and went through a downturn, I was asked by the sourcing organisation and Nokia to come along and bring my partnering horsepower to help them out in driving supplier relationship management. So the couple of things that I did, there are the three things I did there was, I was asked to manage some of the biggest indirect suppliers and turn them from suppliers into partnerships. And the second thing I was asked to do was to drive the supplier relationship management Centre of Excellence worldwide for Nokia. I took the Alliance Centre of Excellence and applied that very, very nicely into the SRM space. And then the third thing that I did, which was very, very innovative was to actually define how to drive a collaborative ecosystem of suppliers to drive completely new value and drive new innovation, etc. So it It blew Nokia’s mind that this is an opportunity there at the time. Yeah, I left Nokia in 2012. In October, I set up my own course with my company. You know, it’s my own company called Consortia Consulting. And I’ve been consulting contracting to all sorts of different organisations, in different industry verticals so out even outside of the telecom space and what I’ve been doing is helping those Companies in terms of driving the whole partnering and alliances, space.

Anoop 4:04
And if we talk about innovation, one of my biggest assignments was in the Netherlands with a company called DSM. And I was in the the DSM Innovation Centre. And my job was to actually drive partnering to drive innovation. So it ties in very nicely with what we’re trying to say over here. A couple of last things I want to say as well is, is one of the things I have been a member of is there is only one professional association in the world for partnering professionals. It’s called the Association of Strategic Alliance Professionals acronym ASAP. It’s a worldwide body has chapters around the world. The UK is one of their largest chapters, and I’ve been the president of the UK chapter for five years from 2013 to 2018. So again, and it’s one of the things that I did is part of, part of that is Nokia like the fact that I was I was I was the only person who’s a member of association. They said, Anoop we want you to drive the whole alliances agenda for us worldwide. So that’s that’s why I did what I did.

Anoop 5:09
Lately what I do, Alex and we’ll speak about this later is I have an alliance partnership Alliance partner myself, a guy called Peter Simoons with Simoons & Company. And he and I have formed alliance, we’ve known each other for 10 years, he and I formed alliance to bring value to people who want to look at partnering alliances and drive that professionally. So we’ve actually we’re practising what we preach and that’s bringing value for our potential clients and, and driving online and face to face training classes around alliances and partnerships. And I think that plays very well to the supplier customer piece because the partnering angle has to be really really strong in terms of what we do. So in a nutshell that’s that’s what I do.

Alex 5:55
That’s fantastic. Well loads loads of experience there on on partners alliances for different companies. And I guess one of the one of the basic questions for someone who doesn’t know much about partnerships and alliances is is something basic. So, why partnerships and alliances? Why do you think they are so important? Especially nowadays?

Anoop 6:18
Okay. especially nowadays I think I touched upon earlier, I think I would say there is a tsunami heading our way already upon us. And that tsunami is huge. It’s, it’s, in it is things like digital disruption, innovation, all that kind of stuff, right? There is no way any company on their own, can actually embrace that and do it on its own. And any company has three, if they want to grow, they want to innovate, they want to, they want to transform they have three very clear ways of doing it. Right. And it’s not the question they need to one or the other. They can use all three. The first thing they can do is they can say, we’re going to do it ourselves, we’re going to bring in the resources, the people, etc, we’re gonna invest in those people, we’re going to do it ourselves, that has its advantages and disadvantages. At the other end of the spectrum where companies have got the money is they can say we’re going to buy, we’re going to buy organisations, we’re going to merge with them, etc. Right? So that’s the, that’s the buy. So you have to build at one end you have to buy the other end, right? What they missed is the bit in the middle that there is actually a very smart and intelligent way of leveraging capabilities, assets, skills, from other organisations that complement what you do.

Anoop 7:40
And it’s based on a shared risk, shared reward, shared resources type approach. And you can actually get to market really quickly by developing new solutions, developing new innovation, driving sustainability that makes sense leveraging on data that’s out there to bring meaningful stuff to you. So it’s a really strong way of doing that, and that, and that’s the borrow bit in the middle. So you could build, borrow, buy, and the borrowing is what I call partnering. Yeah. So alliances upon partnering. Now, if we think about why it’s important today, I mentioned earlier that that that’s important today, even more so now, you you the the world economy is in absolute crisis, okay. There is a massive opportunity. I’m already seeing examples of it happening now where organisations are actually collaborating together to innovate. Right now, you could get that within the supply chain between customers and suppliers. You can get that with competitors. You can get that with companies that are that are have adjacencies to your current business.

Anoop 8:48
So let me give you an example of the of the competitive piece right. I just saw the other day about three biopharma companies that are coming together, they compete with each other, but they’re coming together and pooling their resources to try and tackle and come up with a novel vaccine for Coronavirus. Right. So there’s a burning platform there and the three companies are coming together where ordinarily they would compete. Right. There is there is it my honest opinion, if we think about the things we have in the UK and the other markets around the supermarkets etc, they have a massive opportunity to collaborate with their suppliers and do it in a real collaborative fashion and innovate around how they get stock in how they do things, etc. The time is now to be able to do it, and it needs to be done now. So that opportunity is big and I think just to add to that, Alex, I and you’ve seen there been a number of big advisory firms, McKinsey’s, Boston Consulting, the Accenture etc. In the last few years, these advisory reports say that CEOs of the CEO they interview, around 76% of the CEOs say businesses, business models are going to change. And what is going to change that is partnering alliances and ecosystems. So those companies that do not embrace that are going to cease to exist. Right. So there’s a massive opportunity now. But at the at the other end of that, Alex, the challenges that the failure rate in this in partnering overall, is, is huge. Anything from 50% up to 75% failure rate, which means there’s a massive opportunity, but the people don’t know how to go about doing it. So the failure rate is exceptionally high. So that’s the opportunity.

Alex 10:47
Exactly. And this is very interesting, because even myself, whenever you hear someone speaking about these and being so clear, like you are and maybe now some companies are being forced to collaborate because of the situation we are in there is no other way around if you have to collaborate for the good of everyone. But yes, what I find very interesting is, and I’ve been doing some research as well. And I remember even even learning about SRM, because when you hear about these, you think, how come no one has been doing these properly? For the last, let’s say 50, 60, 70 years? How come this is, this is something even you said it at the beginning. There is only one association of partnerships and alliances. How come this is even possible? And now you were saying, well, even even the ones to try because I’ve even talked to some, I’ve had the chance to interview CPOs, people, people from the procurement world, and they are aware of this, this is not something no one would not agree with is that they do. But as you said, they fail to do it. They, oh, it’s one: either they don’t know how to do it. They want to do it but they don’t know how to or the second one they failed to do it. Why do you think that is?

Anoop 12:00
I think there’s a there’s a couple of things. So yeah, there’s the business leaders are saying, we need to do it. Okay, that’s that’s fine. I think the challenges that then think, how do we go about doing it? How do we how do we, how do we put a strategy in place? And then how do we execute on that strategy to collaborate, partner, etc. and the challenges is, as you said, it’s this has been around for a long time, SRM partnering, alliances, is not new. It’s not rocket science. It’s been around for a long, long time. The challenge is people think they know what they’re doing. And their view around collaborating and partnering is, well, this is what we do. It’s all about driving cost savings or driving, driving revenues, etc, which is completely and not not, not right at all. So that their mindset is around doing it that way. And therefore, they go about it in the wrong way. Okay. So the the thing that they need to be able to do is understand that this the process to collaborate and partner is very, very different to either driving sales or driving cost reductions in procurement, it’s very different. And it’s different from the point of view that the frameworks that use have to be different, they have to be very collaborative frameworks they have to move from, I’m going to look at what’s in it for me, and it’s need to look at what’s in it for we, okay? The this and thentheres the…So that’s the science bit of it.

Anoop 13:32
Then there’s the art, which means the attitudes, behaviours, the culture. Now I’ll come to culture because this is critically important and a lot of companies and it’s very normal, a lot of companies find it very difficult to relinquish control. It’s natural. They say, I need to do what’s right for me, as as our company, we need to survive, we need to make money etc. So we’re gonna stick to us, right? The culture that’s required for partnering alliances has to change from a control based culture to a trust based culture. And if that culture doesn’t exist, it, I kid you not the challenges that people will face both internally, first of all, because your stakeholders have to learn to trust, right. And if they don’t trust, you’re going to find it very difficult then to partner externally. So you need to do that first, then you need to be able to partner with an organisation externally, and their culture needs to kind of reflect that as well. Now, you’re never going to get to companies that are going to have a very aligned culture, it’s gonna be the same. That’s not the way it works. But you have to form a third culture. And the third culture of collaboration has to be with that partnership. That makes sense. But I think that culture piece and the soft side of things is really, really important.

Anoop 14:48
So people’s attitudes, behaviours, their language, that’s going to be really important. And I’ll come to that language piece, Alex, because I do see in the procurement perspective, a lot of people saying, Yeah, we’re going to we’re going to work with this organisation, they’re, they’re a partner, they’re a partner of ours. And then when they when it comes to when it comes to talking to them and said, yeah, but they’re a vendor? And I’m just like saying you’ve just blown it? You blown it? Right? The language affects it. I have a I talked about a model, I call an ABCD model. Okay. The A is, is it starts up with doesn’t start off with a with the a is about having the right attitudes. Okay. Right. Those right attitudes towards partners leads to the right behaviours towards partners, and the right behaviours will lead to the right culture, the collaborative culture that you need, in order for this to happen. But there’s a missing thing. There’s a D. Yeah, the D is the dialogue or dialect you have and just come back to the point we made. You’ve got to use the right language, the right dialogue or dialect with internally and with the partners because if you’re going to call them up partner, consistently call them a partner. Make sure the attitudes and behaviours of people work with them as a partner and your culture as result will become collaborative. I mean, if your language is wrong you’ve blown it, right?

Alex 16:14
Yeah, exactly. Well, that looks like a nice recipe. I didn’t even know about that one. But um, and yeah, and I was I was thinking as you as you said before, sometimes and as I was saying, because I’ve seen loads of cases I’ve done I’ve done a few research. And some, some companies, they actually realise they have this problem, as you said at the beginning, it’s either disrupt, they fear the disruption of new technology, new startups, or even they might want to get new innovation for their sustainable practices, whatever it is, that’s pushing them to actually do something new innovating in a way or another. And I’ve come across loads of loads of examples of companies who say you might talk to them and you ask them “Well, are you doing something in supplier innovation. Are you collaborating with your suppliers for innovation?” And they say, Oh, we Yeah, we are. And then you check it out and what they are actually doing at the end of the day is they are just buying innovation, some call it supplier innovation, which at the end of the day means, well, I’m buying innovation. I’ll even go farther and call it open innovation. And they have a platform online, which between you and I, this is a crowdsourcing platform for innovation. So then I look at it understanding the whole collaboration, partnering, the importance of it and as you said, that the human side of it, the trust and all that, and I asked myself, okay, you get the problem, but I don’t see any of that there. I don’t see collaboration. I don’t see partnering, I see as a short term strategy.

Anoop 17:48
What actually was interesting okay, and and you mustn’t necessarily close doors. I think the the crowdsourcing approach, I think is a good thing because there are if we think about there are so many Smaller organisations out there that are doing very, very innovative things and there’s there is no way that one organisation one big organisation is going to be able to partner with all the smaller organisations. So having that crowdsourcing platform is actually a good thing because you do you do find pockets of really really good innovation which you can actually leverage but that is what you’re right. That is around supplier innovation, you buying that innovation in right. But the thing is with some of your most critical and strategic suppliers and and by that yeah, a lot of where a lot of companies go wrong is to say, “I spend X amount X million pounds, euros dollars, whatever with company x and therefore their strategic supplier to me and therefore I will work with them to innovate”, wrong way of doing it is wrong way of doing it.

Anoop 18:51
Don’t look at spend, look at criticality to your strategy, right? Find those rights suppliers go through the process of qualifying them, because there is there is a partnering selection process we go through, you can apply that to supplier selection process as well go through those and select those few that you can really, really allocate time, effort resource to work with, and really collaboratively drive innovation. Yeah. And by that, you know, not actually telling them innovate, bring it to me we will buy it off you, no, no, this is about, you know, taking some very clear principles around, we’re going to share the risk with you, we’re going to share the reward with you, we’re going to share resources with you. And what we come up with together is going to be a benefit to eventual customers of ours. And to you and to me, so it’s a triple win. Right. And people look at the win win. They forget about the third win, which is you’re trying to do this the third win for your eventual customers at the end of the day. If you don’t do it. You missed the point,

Alex 19:58
It’s a win-win-win.

Anoop 19:59
Absolutely if you look at a bilateral partnership, it’s a win win win. If you’ve got a multi partner, multi party partnership, then it’s a multi partner win if thats makes sense. The important thing here also Alex, is that we need to remember that some of these suppliers who supply into an organisation are actually friends of yours, they understand your business as well as you do. Yeah, right. Otherwise they wouldn’t be supplying it to you. So why not work with them? Why not work with and there’s there’s a great, great opportunity there and it’s, it’s it needs senior people take a look at that and do it in the right way. And I’ll explain back to your point around why aren’t some organisations doing it? I have seen some organisations that do it, but they’re, they’re very small. So I’ve seen when I was at Nokia, for instance, I collaborated very, very well. with people like Shell. Shell were doing some some really good things at the time. I saw that people In Novartis were doing things etc. And I’m still in contact with in Novartis as you are, and there were a couple of other organisations that were doing it, I know Procter and Gamble to do a fantastic job, that they actually mandate 50% of innovation needs to come from outside. Okay. So there are companies that actually do it and do it very, very well. But, but a small, a small, okay. So the opportunity is just ginormous, absolutely ginormous. I cannot even articulate what it would be. Yeah. But it’s huge.

Alex 21:30
Yeah. And then this is interesting. You were saying? You just said, some, some, some people from the senior management should be the ones taking the lead on this. And this is something that sometimes I wonder, because I see, I see that the impact of these collaborations these partnerships, is it will obviously be an impact for the entire business. But whenever whenever I talk about these collaborations, or I’m researching and I try to understand who they collaborate with. You said before they can collaborate with competitors, they can even collaborate, I guess, with academics, universities, but the number one, and probably the easiest way for them to do this with their suppliers, and the ones who are in touch with their suppliers is procurement. But sometimes whenever we talk to procurement people who are meant to be the ones driving these collaborations because they are the ones in touch with suppliers, no one else is, sometimes it seems like they don’t have the support from the entire business. What I mean is, it is obvious, at least for me that these has an impact for the entire business. This is a problem for the entire business, not just procurement, procurement are now in the driver’s seat. They found themselves in the driver’s seat because they are the ones in touch with their suppliers, and they have this opportunity to actually help the business so that innovation or that sustainability, how do you think that should work or how do you think C-Suite to be supporting more procurements to the procurement actually talking more to C-Suite? What do you think?

Anoop 23:06
I think it’s both. I think it’s both. I think I think what what needs to happen is a need needs to be executive sponsorship from the C-Suite for procurement to drive it, but I think it needs to be something else as well. But the people who are driving it in procurement and and I would, if they if they want to drive collaborative innovation, I would actually refer to them as partnering professionals, right. And when someone asked me what does a partnering professional need to look like? I would, I would pictorially I would say conductor of an orchestra. Yeah. They are the conductor of an orchestra. They are they are the the person that’s in contact with their counterpart in terms of the partnership, but they have people in their virtual team stakeholders who they need to work with. And they, those stakeholders are very, very good at what they do and all that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. So that that’s they need support from the C suite and I would say executive sponsorship is critically important. So if there’s a big, big, collaborative supplier innovation that needed that needs to be worked with between one company and another, you need someone from the C suite to actually be an executive sponsor for that. Yeah. Right. Because if that if you get executive sponsorship, my goodness me It actually helps a hell of a lot. So that’s point number one.

Anoop 24:23
Point number two is the procurement people who are fronting this with the partners need need to be rewarded in a very, very different way. Right. They need to be rewarded, not by driving costs and and the standard things that procurement people are driven by the need to be rewarded by driving new innovation or driving and measuring that new innovation by number of innovations received and implemented, etc. You know, those those kinds of things and new solutions created etc. And it’s a very, very different mentality in terms of how they actually drive it. So I would say the people from procurement driving that need to be what I call strategic business development people. Right? Okay, they need to link it to strategy they need to understand this is about we not about me, right? So you can see there’s a lot of things that need to happen.

Anoop 25:26
And they need to be supported by the culture, which does sit for the C suite because C suite other people who drive that culture. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I’ll give you an example. If we look at a company like Microsoft, for instance. Okay. We had we had a change of leadership several years ago. Okay, from from Steve Ballmer to Satya Nadella. Right? The cultural change within that organisation has been unbelievably huge. And they’ve gone from talking about you know, a know-it-all culture to a learn-it-all culture and that those are the things really, really, really helped because all of a sudden, when you hear the CEO talking with, with partners, etc, it’s about we, it’s about what do we need to do to make this thing happen, right? And those sort of things are kind of really important. So having that executive sponsorship at the top is critical having the culture and the right kind of people driving it is critically important as well.

Alex 26:27
Absolutely I never thought of these way by looking at the Microsoft example but I’ll for sure read more about that because it seems like

Anoop 26:39
There’s there’s there’s there’s actually there’s actually a nice video that you may want to watch Alex so there’s there’s a video where the CEO of Microsoft Satya Nadella is talking with the chairman of KPMG I think a guy called Bill Thomas right? They have a short video present announced a big strategic alliance a little while ago, etc. If you listen to the conversation between those two CEOs it is all about how do we leverage upon each other’s capabilities to drive value for our joint customers. And that, to me is just just just fundamentally important because they’re talking about bringing value to their, their joint customers. Yeah, yes. KPMG we use a lot of stuff from Microsoft in terms of Azure, both internally and also leveraging that jointly with some of their solutions to take their customers, etc. So, you know, it’s a great one to take a look at.

Alex 27:35
Absolutely. So let me ask you a final question before before, before we close. I remember listening to one of your podcasts I think he was in a in Peter Simoons podcast called collaborative business if I’m not wrong.

Anoop 27:51
Collaborative business podcast

Alex 27:53
I really like it. And I remember you were giving a definition of SRM which I totally lost, and I actually wrote it down. Have it on my on my notes?

Anoop 28:02
You probably remember better than I do Alex

Alex 28:05
Probably yes word by word. Um Yeah, I really liked it I really really liked it because I sometimes whenever I’m researching something I really like to go and look at the definition and understand at the beginning what it really means and then what people are doing. Sometimes when I’m when I’m having conversations with people at Vizibl as well, or people from procurement, I ask myself is what we’re talking about now these partnerships, these collaborations, this new way of looking at suppliers is these SRM, or we call these SRM 2.0 something new. What do you think, is the essence there?

Anoop 28:42
I think the essence the essence is still there. The essence is still there. But I think what needs to happen, Alex is that people that I’ve heard many different versions of a definition of SRM and as I said, I’ve said before, there’s some people look at SRM as supply risk management which I think is completely wrong okay. It is about supplier relationship management now, the the whole essence of supplier relationship management is to create joint value right and some of their joint value can be innovation. So, I think the innovation pieces is part of it not the whole thing. So, I think SRM is is kind of a base platform and then the supplier collaboration and innovation the particularly the innovation pieces is the is the critical bit that one of the bits that comes out of it, but an important bit that comes out of it

Alex 29:38
It is an outcome

Anoop 29:40
It is an outcome. Well I think supply relationship management is a way of working with those suppliers as collaborative partners to drive new value for everyone. Right. And one of the outputs. Well said, one of the outputs is around driving new innovation. Yeah and that innovation will will will create new things in itself.

Alex 30:05:
Yeah, great. So and then before we close I’m aware I’ve seen you know, I follow most of the things you do as well with Peter Simoons. You did a webinar yesterday as well. And I’m aware if the masterclass that you are doing. I’m very sorry because of the whole situation you’ve had to cancel most of the most of the in person lectures, but I’m pretty sure you have more plans. Would you like to share with us because we have done 25 minutes here, we could be talking for ages. And there are loads of things we can learn from you on partnerships and alliances, collaboration, your experience, etc. How can we learn more about these? What is this masterclass that you’re working on?

Anoop 30:44:
So, so these masterclasses and what we’re doing because of the Coronavirus situation, we’ve pivoted our business, okay. We moved it from face to face to online. So it’s a great thing to do. We’ve innovated in or innovated

Alex 30:56
Right there,

Anoop 30:56
We’ve innovated right, which which I think a lot of people like. The whole essence is and I think I spoke before we both myself and Peter Simoons, we see a lot of businesses and business leaders, etc, talk about alliances and failing, right. And we see a lot of business leaders who try to do alliances and they just don’t do it the right way. And it’s, we see it, we just we just get upset about it. We just we just think there’s so much opportunity here that’s not being looked at properly, because it is absolutely a key strategy for companies to move forward. So what we’ve done is created the Alliance Masterclass, and that is around teaching training, mentoring people around what do we mean by Alliance and partnership, right? How do you go about creating it from strategy through to value value creation through to trust, through to operationalizing it through to launching it? We go through it in a fair bit of detail, the face to face ones typically last two days, the online ones, we’re doing it over three days, but three hours, every three days, if that makes sense , nine hours, we’re doing it that way.

Anoop 32:15
And it isn’t just us, you know having PowerPoint and talking to people, what we actually do is we actually have actual examples of alliances, those that have succeeded, those that have failed, and we get people to use the tools because we have, we have a lot of tools that we give people. We get them to use the tools and actually start saying, right, based on the tools, what would you have done in this alliance, right. And we talk about successes, we talk about the failures. I have some life case studies I talk about because both Peter and I were not just thought leaders where we’ve done it, we’ve been in the field, we’ve done it so we’ve actually got some real examples of alliances that we’ve worked on where we succeeded and alliances that we’ve seen massively wrong, right. Yeah. Huge, huge problems. So we’ve helped people along that that journey. And that’s, that’s what we do. So it’s all about, you know, education, training, work on some of your own partnerships, alliances, etc. And what we want to be able to do Alex is actually say that this absolutely applies to organisations that are looking at the whole supplier-customer collaboration.

Anoop 33:22
I think we spoke earlier on, there’s an opportunity when you look at alliances, partnerships, you can do it within your supply chain between customers and suppliers. You can do it with competitors, you can read horizontally with adjacent industries, it applies, it applies extremely well. And the reason why I say that is because having done what I did at Nokia, around the supplier relationship management, the parallel between what I did and alliances and partnerships, and what you do in SRM and in the supplyier collaboration and innovation, I kid you not, it’s the parallels are just did they’re joined at the hip? So from that perspective, if there are if there are people who are looking to say how do I collaborate with my suppliers? How do I drive more value? Believe you, me what you learn in the online, in the Alliance master classes in the alliance partnerships, master classes, you can absolutely apply that to what you do when we’ve had people come in and actually learn from that as well.

Alex 34:18
That’s great. That’s great, fantastic. Well you know, I’m a true believer on this. So I’ll be the first one to tell them straight away, but I hope you, you, you get the chance to obviously teach and and share your advice with absolutely everyone that really, that really wants to impact their own businesses and change and learn about partnerships and actually drive these in in the future. So, again, thank you so much for joining us for this first one for our first Vizibl Podinar. I’m 100% sure we’ll have you again for another one or two it look.

Alex 34:59
Yeah, so thank you Anoop so much and stay safe.

Alex 35:01
Thank you likewise, Alex.

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